Some Prop 8 Talk
Proposition 8 is all the rage here in CA. Everyone's talking about it, putting up signs about it, blogging about it, and in general, making me tired of hearing about it.
For those who don't know and are too lazy to click on the link, prop 8 would make it so marriage can only be between a man and a woman. As in, gay people wouldn't be able to get married.
There are a slew of commercials about this. Here's the gist of them: little pigtailed girl runs up to her mom (who naturally, is in the kitchen), and says, "Hey, guess what I learned in school today! A king can marry a king and when I grow up, I can marry a princess!" Cut to the mom looking horrified.
Probably no surprise to anyone who knows me, that "I don't get it." These commercials are aiming to say two things:
1. Children shouldn't know about gay people.
2. Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry.
I understand neither of these. Should children not know about handicapped people? Should white children not know about black children? Should children not know anyone who is in any way different from them? Different religion? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought there was something about stimulating children's brains by exposing them to different things. Granted, most people interpret that to mean "take your kid to the zoo" and such.
Gay people exist. They are not going to stop existing. If children are exposed to gay people, they can ask questions and it can become a non-issue. If children are "sheltered" from gay people, the likelihood of them meeting a gay person as an adult and insulting them by accident seems pretty strong to me.
Granted, somebody who is "against" gay people may say "well they chose to be that way, so they deserve any insults they get." Except from everything I've read, gay people are born gay. The only choice they make is whether or not to hide it.
Kids are taught about Black History Month, Chinese New Year, and all sorts of things involving people who are potentially different from them. So why NOT teach them that not everyone has the stereotypical family with two straight parents?
The other issue is that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. Why not? Because your bible tells you that? Should everyone have to live according to your bible? Are you living entirely according to your bible? No, you are not. So why should you be allowed to pick and choose the parts of your bible other people should live by?
Like with the anti-abortion stance, I wonder if anyone can speak intelligently about why they think gay marriage is wrong without bringing religion into the equation.
For those who don't know and are too lazy to click on the link, prop 8 would make it so marriage can only be between a man and a woman. As in, gay people wouldn't be able to get married.
There are a slew of commercials about this. Here's the gist of them: little pigtailed girl runs up to her mom (who naturally, is in the kitchen), and says, "Hey, guess what I learned in school today! A king can marry a king and when I grow up, I can marry a princess!" Cut to the mom looking horrified.
Probably no surprise to anyone who knows me, that "I don't get it." These commercials are aiming to say two things:
1. Children shouldn't know about gay people.
2. Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry.
I understand neither of these. Should children not know about handicapped people? Should white children not know about black children? Should children not know anyone who is in any way different from them? Different religion? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought there was something about stimulating children's brains by exposing them to different things. Granted, most people interpret that to mean "take your kid to the zoo" and such.
Gay people exist. They are not going to stop existing. If children are exposed to gay people, they can ask questions and it can become a non-issue. If children are "sheltered" from gay people, the likelihood of them meeting a gay person as an adult and insulting them by accident seems pretty strong to me.
Granted, somebody who is "against" gay people may say "well they chose to be that way, so they deserve any insults they get." Except from everything I've read, gay people are born gay. The only choice they make is whether or not to hide it.
Kids are taught about Black History Month, Chinese New Year, and all sorts of things involving people who are potentially different from them. So why NOT teach them that not everyone has the stereotypical family with two straight parents?
The other issue is that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. Why not? Because your bible tells you that? Should everyone have to live according to your bible? Are you living entirely according to your bible? No, you are not. So why should you be allowed to pick and choose the parts of your bible other people should live by?
Like with the anti-abortion stance, I wonder if anyone can speak intelligently about why they think gay marriage is wrong without bringing religion into the equation.
Labels: City Livin, Overthinking, Playing in SF
posted by Green at 10/21/2008 03:48:00 PM
13 Comments:
Just perfect ! Thank you
Well, I think the reason you have all these questions is because you are a rational person and all the arguments against gay marriage and kids being exposed to gay people don't make any sense at all. But I don't think you were asking that exactly...Anywhoo, I agree!
Word. I fully support Prop8 and everything San Fran stands for in that. A friend of mine went out there to attend the gay wedding at city hall of a couple who were featured in the San Fran newspaper!
I don't understand the reason to ban pretty much anything that doesn't directly harm someone else. What does it hurt to allow anyone to marry anyone else? Does it matter if someone else gets an abortion? Do I care if someone doesn't wear their seatbelt?
Legislating morality/personal values/safety (of course only for yourself, don't harm others...) is ridiculous and a waste of taxpayer's money.
Stay out of my bedroom, my uterus and my pocketbook...
Really, really well said. I'm linking to that post, stat!
This focus on school curriculum is so dishonest. They are using the case in MA to argue that same-sex marriage will be part of the school curriculum, and that's not even what happened. What happened in MA is that a father objected to his child being exposed to same-sex parents in a book on diversity. He then went to the school and demanded that the school give parents advance notice if any adult was going to mention same-sex marriage so the parents could have their kids "opt-out." The school said no, and tried to point out that since same-sex marriage was legal, it was not an issue for parental notification. So the father said he wouldn't leave until they accomodated him. They had to have him arrested because he wouldn't leave. And he was all indignant, in tears, even, at the notion that a father trying to stand up for his right as a parent could be seen as a criminal (and not at all aware of the fact that civil disobedience often involves getting arrested).
At any rate, it's ludicrous to think that, even in states where same-sex marriage is not legal, the schools can prevent kids from learning about it in positive ways. For example, my son has at least two friends who have same-sex parents. According to this MA man, would these parents not be allowed to volunteer at school or come to school events? Would their kids not be allowed to talk about their moms?
The issue is really nothing to do with legalizing same-sex marriage and everything to do with wanting to legalize blatant homophobia.
Right on!!
Well, my ex says that marriage is only valid if God and church validates... OH WAIT, you said, "intelligently". My bad. Never mind.
I think in 30 years we'll be looking at this the way we (now) view racial segregation in the 50's/60's - in horror and disbelief that our country ever functioned that way. At least, I hope that's the case.
Excellent post, Green. Hope you don't mind another link to it from me.
As you know, I have been volunteering over at the No on 8 campaign and it has had its ups and downs. When I hear from people who are excited to vote no, they speak about unfairness and how there has already been too much persecution and inequality in our history and that backwards amending our state constitution is disgusting. And when I hear from people who are vehemently voting yes on prop 8, I hear about GOD'S LAW v. man's law and how "ass fucking" is an abomination under their lord (as if ass-fucking has anything to do with law). I have been called a Sodomite even though I am CLEARLY not male. One woman told me that unless I mended my ways and started laying with men rather than other women, I was going to hell with the rest of my sinning ilk. I didn't have the heart to tell her that I was pretty equal opportunity when it came to the whole laying thing. Not one yes voter has said anything intelligent, mentioned anything other than their religion, or not brought their own morality into the equation. As if we should be making laws based on random morality judgments. They don't have a good basis to vote no, other than that their sky fairy told them that fags and dykes are yucky and don't deserve anything under the law. It's vile.
To the crazy lady who brought up man's law v. god's law, I told her that perhaps she should take herself out of the democratic process and not vote at all, since voting has nothing to do with god's law and everything to do with man's law. She said, I don't care about the democratic process; I'm a republican.
Fucking idiot.
Wonderful post! Love is love! Are we living in the dark ages still?
I am proud to live in Canada where gays can marry and have the same rights as any other couple.
Thanks for this post
David
I've been wondering how a catholic bishop who protected pedophile priests feels he has the moral high ground to make a judgement in this instance (or any other)
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